Interesting take on the newly announced 'CMP' cards by nVidia.

johngalt

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Linus of LTT makes some quick comments about the newly announced CMP GPUs announced by nVidia in a TechNews video (first segment):


A day later and he puts out a dedicated video explaining why this is all smoke and mirrors:

 

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z3r010

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I watched that yesterday morning (or was it this morning? meh) and as usual, he makes some good points.
 

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johngalt

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Yup. In another forum, there were a few of us that were excited by these cards - until we saw the lack of availability of them. I'm still running a GTX 970 on my new rig, but I'm able to play both WD: Legion as well as Cyberpunk 2077 natively on the card with very little issues (toned down obviously), so most of us have decided that we're waiting until next gen. I'm still watching product output, but the whole CMP thing is really irking me to no end - nVidia is seeming more and more like Intel, and I've sworn off Intel after the whole Spectre and Meltdown fiasco.

I really think AMD's next gen ATI (not the 6k series, the cards they release in 2022) are going to bridge the gap even more than the 6k series have with the nVidia 30x0 series cards, because I'm both tired of the scalping and stupid markups by reliable AIBs. But the lack of availability of the GPUs and other silicon parts themselves thanks to COIV-19 isn't helping, either.
 

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and I've sworn off Intel after the whole Spectre and Meltdown fiasco.


I'm not defending Intel, I think their products are grossly overpriced. Especially when I can get an AMD of equivalent computing ability a lot cheaper than an Intel.

The Meltdown and Spectre flaws are mostly server side howerver. A home users doesn't really need to worry abou it, and the BIOS patch along with the needed Windows patch will slow your CPU compute times down.

EVERY FREAKING THING has a security flaw. I bet your router has one now. There are CVEs found each and every single day.
 

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They need two product lines: One for gaming, the other for mining. If not, we all suffer.

Last time there was a cryptocurrency craze I was in the market for a GTX 1060. I could not find ONE to save my soul. So I began searching for a GTX 1050TI. Still, could not find one. I did find one in the far reaches of the Internet and only one with an outrageous price tag that was comparable to how much a 1060 would have cost, but I bought the damn thing anyway seen as how I was upgrading from a GTX 560 TI. Now I'd like to have a better GPU, but that's out of the question.
 

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johngalt

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I'm not defending Intel, I think their products are grossly overpriced. Especially when I can get an AMD of equivalent computing ability a lot cheaper than an Intel.

The Meltdown and Spectre flaws are mostly server side howerver. A home users doesn't really need to worry abou it, and the BIOS patch along with the needed Windows patch will slow your CPU compute times down.

EVERY FREAKING THING has a security flaw. I bet your router has one now. There are CVEs found each and every single day.

Nah, I know this. One of my favorite quotations of myself is one I've used for decades and across various forums - "If it is digital, it can be hacked." I know this - but as for the flaws themselves, yes and no - the fact that the flaws existed is not my issue. My issue was that they put a cut-off line on where they offered solutions for Spectre on product lines - and a perfectly viable Bloomfield CPU (Core i7 965 EE) was left in the cold. The y had the ability to do so - I read a few articles about the source code for BIOS not being available for the X58 chipsets and that was #@$%^@$#^ because I found them online easily enough myself. And the CPU microcode that they kept updating showed not one but two updates to the Bloomfield CPUs several months after Spectre and Meltdown first made the air waves - which means they were easily able to upgrade the microcode (and my machine, running Linux, was able to use the updated microcode flawlessly). Intel's decisions to cut off older CPUs stuck in my craw as a poor decision, one of many that occurred around the same time frame, both with not publicly disclosing the vulnerabilities until after the researchers did so themselves 6 months after full disclosure to Intel but also with them shuffling their feet with a fix when software companies were able to develop algorithms from software side to mitigate the performance hits to their CPUs easily. AMD cashed in on this animosity by people like me by really pouring efforts into developing better CPUs, seeing they had a good chance closing the gap and an increased fanbase. They aren't immune (no one is) - but they also don't sit on their ass and wring their hands and keep mum about vulnerabilities. Even that one that you just linked to.

They need two product lines: One for gaming, the other for mining. If not, we all suffer.

Last time there was a cryptocurrency craze I was in the market for a GTX 1060. I could not find ONE to save my soul. So I began searching for a GTX 1050TI. Still, could not find one. I did find one in the far reaches of the Internet and only one with an outrageous price tag that was comparable to how much a 1060 would have cost, but I bought the damn thing anyway seen as how I was upgrading from a GTX 560 TI. Now I'd like to have a better GPU, but that's out of the question.

nVidia is doing just that - or trying to make it look like they are. The problem is that the overlap between miners and gamers is rather large - so having to buy 2 devices for 2 discrete purposes is gonna piddle a lot of people off. But, you can't please all of the people all of the time lol.

As for the last time there was a craze - yeah. I had a 970 and was considering upgrading. I gave up trying when the y were all gone. Thought I'd grab the RTX 20x0 series - but research showed it was first gen hardware (almost never a good buy from nVidia) and that I didn't really need it at the time - my current monitors are max 1920 x 1080 res displays, so a beefed card would benefit me little, especially as they are extremely old 60 Hz displays. So I waited.

Along came the RTX 30x0 series - and the increase in features, technology support (like DLSS) and a pretty serious bump in power came along - and right when I built a new machine. So, I was excited to grab one. Pfffft.

This was worse than the 10x0 launch. Much worse. And make no bones about it - both nVidia and the AIBs are loving the extra money they are getting from the inflated sales prices. Heck, I recently saw a used 2080 going for over $1500 USD. That is insane.

It will come back to haunt them - I've not been a fan of ATI cards in a long, long while, but they are making great strides in closing the gap. Plus, I'm getting new monitors to replace my aging LT2323 pair, which will be 4K - and my 970 will all of a sudden be obsolete when using them for any significant gaming without dropping the res massively. Hence, my desire for a new 30x0 card. But that is nixed. And I doubt I'll try to get the refreshed Ti series cards either - a good bit more research has shown me that the next gen will be even better, and ATI may actually close the gap even more so than they have with this generation - though that means waiting for another 1.5 years, I think it is worth it - if that is even close the being true, ATI and nVidia will have direct competition in a way that they haven't seen in a long while, and that should help with both pricing and availability.
 
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DTG1

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ATI may actually close the gap even more so than they have with this generation - though that means waiting for another 1.5 years,
RDNA2 architecture, which includes a form of ray tracing, is being used by the current AMD cards, the next generation might use a form of CDNA since I am unsire of there will be RNDA3 architecture. I expect for AMD to take the lead eventually but still depends on advancements in the architecture for their cards. It wont be easy.
 

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johngalt

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Correct - but the patent at the end of last year shows MCM (chiplets) may be the future - just don't know if that is across RDNA2's successors, or if it is just for the APUs, or what. The patent was filed for, that's fact, but the application to Navi 31 is still rumor (at least as of a month ago or so).

But that is why I am hopeful about it. IF it works (and yes, I realize it is a mighty, might big if there) it could propel them much much closer to competing against nVidia than they currently are. But there are conflicting rumors, or, at least, incomplete rumors (not to mention the fact that they are rumors in and of themselves). Not to mention that rumors of nVidia following the same rabbit hole are also floating out there.

Wccftech's article AMD Files MCM Based GPU Patent - Finally Bringing The MCM Approach To Radeon GPUs? has hte fully patent application as well as some insight as to how smaller chiplets make sense from a production standpoint (with drawings!). And Raevenlord's own article at TPU On The Coming Chiplet Revolution and AMD's MCM Promise gets into finer details about how MCM - especially with the details regarding the 'active' interposers being worked on by AMD to overcome the challenges of MCM. It even includes the paper discussing the research being conducted on interposers, co-authored by a couple of AMD folks - https://seal.ece.ucsb.edu/sites/sea.../2017-iccad-stow-activepassiveinterposers.pdf So, yeah, it's all very exciting.

However, in my own case, I'm on a wait list to buy a pair of 4K monitors - my current pair are 1080p @ 60 Hz max, so I can easily game with my GTX 970. I was excited for the RTX 30x0 cards, and in particular the 3080, and after the availability fiasco I was then excited for the 3080 Ti, but I'm not fighting bots; neither am I paying double the price of what's essentially almost 1 year old tech now. I doubt a 3080 Ti will, at this point, be the 20 GB refresh of the 3080 (which, from what I've seen of the *latest* rumors, will actually be a cut down 3090 with 12 GB GDDR6X if it *does* get made - still not sure if that is good or bad *snicker*) anyway, and if it does get made, I doubt it will be under $1100 USD. Pushing the new monitors my graphics card will fail miserably I'm sure - I'll have to scale down to continue playing games on the 970. But at this point, with the massive boom in mining and folks able to buy 50 cards when I can't get one, I'm better off waiting until 2022 unless I 1) win one in a contest, 2) Happen to come across a deal that isn't scalping me, or 3) someone gives me one. And, I'd bet on the first or third happening long before the second does.

One cool thing to note - I know nVidia has done the binned bigger GPU for smaller card thing before - I still have in my possession a GTX 560 TI 448 core - which was not a refresh of the original 560 but a new version using the bigger GPU from the 580, just cut down. So I can easily believe the rumors about the 3080 Ti. But, I'm still soured over the whole mining debacle - and even more so with nVidia's pathetic response with the CMPs. And, unless something changes drastically in the next couple of months, they are still ahead in the game versus AMD.

So, waiting til 2022 is really the best choice for me, barring one of those 3 ludicrous scenarios actually coming to bear. But, hey, stranger things have happened ;P
 
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I vote for the stranger! :rolleyes:
 

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johngalt

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I wish lol. I think I'm better off not waiting - but if it happens, it happens.
 

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